Comments on: Making the Business Case to Attend MIX 2008 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html A blog on software development, technology, games & movies. Fri, 16 May 2008 05:03:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Flex and Flash Developer - Jesse Warden dot Kizz-ohm » Blog Archive » Going to MIX 2008 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-54523 Flex and Flash Developer - Jesse Warden dot Kizz-ohm » Blog Archive » Going to MIX 2008 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:03:10 +0000 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-54523 [...] don’t think I made the business case. Rather, I think my uber-focused CTO wants to see visible proof of Silverlight 2 being a valid [...] […] don’t think I made the business case. Rather, I think my uber-focused CTO wants to see visible proof of Silverlight 2 being a valid […]

]]> By: Todd http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-49498 Todd Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:39:56 +0000 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-49498 I like the point you make about not turning business away with Silverlight. I was originally a MSFT developer, but came over to Flex/AIR just over a year ago. For me it was really a case of right tool for the job. That and I was tired of waiting on something from MSFT for cross-platform development. That and a buddy told me that AS3 wasn't the bastardized kiddie language of yesteryear. However, I think Silverlight 2.0 is going to be huge. There's a plenty of CTOs at .NET shops that keep asking me about it. They want to improve their web apps, make them more interactive, make the UX more 2008ish, but they're not willing to train a couple of developers. (Even though, I'm of the opinion that a skilled OO dev, whether C# or Java, will pick up Actionscript 3 in the matter of minutes, and be very productive in a month with the Framework.) I also agree with your assessment on the media companies supporting it. It's not going to take long before a company approaches an agency like Digitas and say, I want this in Silverlight because of x-reason, like we have developers that might be able to maintain it. No company in their right mind is going to turn down a big project. Then the client partner will go to the dev team and they'll be forced to ramp up on the tools -- not because MSFT is pushing them, but because MSFT's customers are pushing thier outsourced vendors. So, all you Flash/Flex devs who think you'll be able to ignore Silverlight, you're sadly mistaken. I don't know too much about MSFTs tools to interact with standard Designer's toolsets like Illustrator (other than Expression Blend, which I can't imagine a Designer using), but I imagine that if MSFT's tools don't support it well, that there's going to be a third-party that does, so the workflow from designer to developer will eventually be as good as the Adobe world. A note to you current Flex/Flash people, even if you don't like MSFT ideology, you really need to educate yourself fundamentally in Silverlight. How are you going to talk to clients when they start peppering you with questions comparing their two options for development? I think the skills for making good rich internet apps are what's more important, not s much the technology to implement. It's still going to take clever design, tasteful animations, UX expertise to pull off good and unique Silverlight apps -- something I'm not sure regular old-school .NET devs will solely have the experience for. At some point down the line, probably 6 months after Silverlight 2.0 is released, it'll be difficult for an end user to know what's Flash, what's Silverlight. It just is. RIA will be another comedety technology like RDMS. OH, and one more biggie, especially with my experiences thus far with third-party components: I'm guaranteeing that the MSFT community (even if you must pay) will have so many third-party controls that it'll make your head sping. This has been the history with third-party components for MSFT, starting back in the days of VBX (precursor to OSX controls in VB), through COM/OSX days, and into the .NET world. People make controls that do almost anything and are widely available. (Not to say that there's not many decent Flex controls, they're jot not as feature rich as say a it from Component One.) Oh, one more thing, I think the Jobs available working on the Adobe platform are a lot more interesting. It's been a good side-effect for me. I just loathed going to one more insurance/financial company to crank out code...but now getting to work with media, at usually smaller, hipper places has been great. Now, if MSFT could make WPF run on OSX, that would be interesting. I think one thing that both sides (whether you're Flex or Silverlight) should remember is that it's not about the tools you use, it's about the apps you make for your customers. I like the point you make about not turning business away with Silverlight. I was originally a MSFT developer, but came over to Flex/AIR just over a year ago. For me it was really a case of right tool for the job. That and I was tired of waiting on something from MSFT for cross-platform development. That and a buddy told me that AS3 wasn’t the bastardized kiddie language of yesteryear.
However, I think Silverlight 2.0 is going to be huge. There’s a plenty of CTOs at .NET shops that keep asking me about it. They want to improve their web apps, make them more interactive, make the UX more 2008ish, but they’re not willing to train a couple of developers. (Even though, I’m of the opinion that a skilled OO dev, whether C# or Java, will pick up Actionscript 3 in the matter of minutes, and be very productive in a month with the Framework.)
I also agree with your assessment on the media companies supporting it. It’s not going to take long before a company approaches an agency like Digitas and say, I want this in Silverlight because of x-reason, like we have developers that might be able to maintain it. No company in their right mind is going to turn down a big project. Then the client partner will go to the dev team and they’ll be forced to ramp up on the tools — not because MSFT is pushing them, but because MSFT’s customers are pushing thier outsourced vendors. So, all you Flash/Flex devs who think you’ll be able to ignore Silverlight, you’re sadly mistaken. I don’t know too much about MSFTs tools to interact with standard Designer’s toolsets like Illustrator (other than Expression Blend, which I can’t imagine a Designer using), but I imagine that if MSFT’s tools don’t support it well, that there’s going to be a third-party that does, so the workflow from designer to developer will eventually be as good as the Adobe world.
A note to you current Flex/Flash people, even if you don’t like MSFT ideology, you really need to educate yourself fundamentally in Silverlight. How are you going to talk to clients when they start peppering you with questions comparing their two options for development?
I think the skills for making good rich internet apps are what’s more important, not s much the technology to implement. It’s still going to take clever design, tasteful animations, UX expertise to pull off good and unique Silverlight apps — something I’m not sure regular old-school .NET devs will solely have the experience for.
At some point down the line, probably 6 months after Silverlight 2.0 is released, it’ll be difficult for an end user to know what’s Flash, what’s Silverlight. It just is. RIA will be another comedety technology like RDMS.
OH, and one more biggie, especially with my experiences thus far with third-party components: I’m guaranteeing that the MSFT community (even if you must pay) will have so many third-party controls that it’ll make your head sping. This has been the history with third-party components for MSFT, starting back in the days of VBX (precursor to OSX controls in VB), through COM/OSX days, and into the .NET world. People make controls that do almost anything and are widely available. (Not to say that there’s not many decent Flex controls, they’re jot not as feature rich as say a it from Component One.)
Oh, one more thing, I think the Jobs available working on the Adobe platform are a lot more interesting. It’s been a good side-effect for me. I just loathed going to one more insurance/financial company to crank out code…but now getting to work with media, at usually smaller, hipper places has been great.
Now, if MSFT could make WPF run on OSX, that would be interesting.
I think one thing that both sides (whether you’re Flex or Silverlight) should remember is that it’s not about the tools you use, it’s about the apps you make for your customers.

]]> By: MIX08 närmar sig - Noticias externas http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-49061 MIX08 närmar sig - Noticias externas Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:15:11 +0000 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-49061 [...] sysslar med Microsoft-teknik idag. Jesse Warden - tungt namn inom Flex/Flash-kretsar - har skrivit ett intressant blogginlägg om varför han prioriterar att åka till [...] […] sysslar med Microsoft-teknik idag. Jesse Warden - tungt namn inom Flex/Flash-kretsar - har skrivit ett intressant blogginlägg om varför han prioriterar att åka till […]

]]> By: e estes http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-48838 e estes Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:21:36 +0000 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-48838 Jesse, i loved the quote on enjoying using the tools. When i talk to other more traditional developers they look at me cross-eyed when i talk about the actual process of interacting with my software being important. I figured it was just that I had an art background rather than a computer science degree. "Focus on the process and the result will follow" doesn't always fly with project managers! I played with blend and it's nice but i don't look at it and say-i'll stay up all night to work with it. But i do think MS will improve the experience over the next few releases. anyway-good post. Jesse, i loved the quote on enjoying using the tools. When i talk to other more traditional developers they look at me cross-eyed when i talk about the actual process of interacting with my software being important. I figured it was just that I had an art background rather than a computer science degree. “Focus on the process and the result will follow” doesn’t always fly with project managers! I played with blend and it’s nice but i don’t look at it and say-i’ll stay up all night to work with it. But i do think MS will improve the experience over the next few releases. anyway-good post.

]]> By: JesterXL http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-48481 JesterXL Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:03:04 +0000 http://jessewarden.com/2008/01/making-the-business-case-to-attend-mix-2008.html#comment-48481 Bandwidth is only the beginning. Prioritization is next. I totally understand that a lot of pro-NN's would prefer that all bits be considered equal, and no favor / dis-favor be given to them. I disagree. If I were runninig a business, and 1 persons Peer to Peer activities negatively affected the experience of other users, that 1 person should be charged for the affect of their bits. Whether this is 1 or 1000, it doesn't matter. The same holds true for bandwidth consumption. As the rise in bandwidth consuming services rise, so too will their marketing departments be quick to capitalize on "less-capped" offerings, although, phrased in such a way that you are getting more, when in reality you're merely paying for a slightly less handicapped service you've already been using. Even worse, I suspect they'll start touting packet prioritization; aka, "If you use Time Warner's version of Skype, it'll operate at 2 meg capacity while the rest of your internet traffic acts as normal DSL and is charged thusly so." I worked on front-end technologies for the above years ago. It's just that I see bandwidth as the first step and packet stereotyping (whether done right or wrong) coming afterwards. Bandwidth is only the beginning. Prioritization is next. I totally understand that a lot of pro-NN’s would prefer that all bits be considered equal, and no favor / dis-favor be given to them. I disagree. If I were runninig a business, and 1 persons Peer to Peer activities negatively affected the experience of other users, that 1 person should be charged for the affect of their bits. Whether this is 1 or 1000, it doesn’t matter.

The same holds true for bandwidth consumption. As the rise in bandwidth consuming services rise, so too will their marketing departments be quick to capitalize on “less-capped” offerings, although, phrased in such a way that you are getting more, when in reality you’re merely paying for a slightly less handicapped service you’ve already been using.

Even worse, I suspect they’ll start touting packet prioritization; aka, “If you use Time Warner’s version of Skype, it’ll operate at 2 meg capacity while the rest of your internet traffic acts as normal DSL and is charged thusly so.”

I worked on front-end technologies for the above years ago. It’s just that I see bandwidth as the first step and packet stereotyping (whether done right or wrong) coming afterwards.

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